Five Minutes Peace | Parents discuss overstimulation with babies & toddlers

Coping with clingy babies, sensory overload, chatty toddlers, and needing a break... This is the one where Emma and Elliot chat about the overstimulation of noise, touch, and emotion when you have two children under 5. How to find a few minutes of peace from incessant crying, from kids being all over you, from toddlers only wanting mum for everything... the guilt of needing some space from the ones you love. Including conversation about gentle parenting, mum guilt, bodies, being the favourite parent, escaping the house, and top tips for dealing with sensory overload as a parent.

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Unwind on sleepless nights to a wholesome mix of parenting stories, quirky humour, and cosy crafting. We’re not here to provide answers but to share our experiences, explore how parenting has changed, and build an online community of parents for mutual support.

A fun, honest and unscripted conversation between Emma and Elliot on non-judgemental parenting and millennial-based topics, as we relax on an evening attempting an artistic or creative activity. 

We are a project in partnership with The Kairos Movement and supported by The Methodist Church, of which The Kairos Movement is a part

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:58 Parenting Achievements
• 5:19 Sensory Overload
• 13:40 Challenges with babies
• 26:00 Ad break
• 28:49 Challenges with toddlers
• 41:36 Tips and advice
• 53:03 Ending

Transcript

So Emma my wife, darling. What are we talking about today? Coping with clinginess and general sensory overload as parents.

This episode is called Five Minutes. Please, please.

Welcome back, moms and dads to the Crippin household. Come and sit with us in the blanket fort. Grab your pot chocolate and your blanket. And looking at me. I'm snuggled in my blanket. It's cold outside. I'm cold. I'm cold. Get all cozy and uh, yeah, baby. The baby. The baby is asleep. So it's time to chat about parenting and unwind, have some laughs, relax as we do some arts and crafts, babies and toddlers, that sort of thing.

We just, we chat about what's going on. As usual, my name is Elliot and as typical my name is, we have not changed people. No, we're the same people with the same names exactly the same as last time. Yes. Yes. As you reminded us. Uh, we usually do a little factoid. Yep. At this point. Um, do you have an interesting fact about yourself, Emma?

What's something unusual about yourself that people might not know? I have a favorite plate to eat meals off. Oh. I didn't even know this. My favourite, our favourite plate. All our plates are identical. No, no. It's the one different one. You know, I think we've stolen it from your parents. It's a white flat plate.

Oh yes, yes. Slightly smaller. And that is my favorite plate eater. Oh. So this is a recent development. 'cause we've only had that like six months or so. Yeah. So in the last six months, that has been my favourite plate. I was this, it's not like a few weeks. Yes. Well, yeah. In comparative to our other plates that we've had for like five, six years.

True. Yes. It is fairly recent. Yes, that is true. That is my favorite plate. And it makes any real, I eat tastes better. Oh, right. Oh, well, I, I don't think I have a. Favorite plate. Um, well that's 'cause you haven't tried my plate, but should it be your favorite? I do have, which I think is fairly normal. I have like a favorite coffee cup and a favorite glass to drink.

Like certain drinks. How to. Yeah. I think that makes sense. Um, I was gonna say, I was like a, an odd little child. I was into juggling magic and puppets. Yeah, you were sweet. Little odd Bo That was me. Hello. Yeah, I think I was. Fairly, fairly normal.

Well, it's like as we got older, we got geeky. Yeah. Like we like dungeon dragon things. Is is, is that it? I think that, I think that's the introduction. There we go. That that is the introduction. That was a messy introduction, but it is now done. We can move past the, I'd be more polished.

Parenting achievement unlocked parenting, achievement stories relating to our two children, one who's four and one who's 11 months. Lillian Lola to her context. Oh, am amuse me recently. Um, you telling me. You're chatting with the other mums at school? Yes. And about how we all have a very similar circumstance.

Yeah. Where none of the mums and dads sleep in the same beds together. And it's not like we don't get on with our husbands don't, don't, you know, don't, it's not like we're like even banished to the sofa. No, no. I was really disgusting with the other moms, you know, as you're waiting for the kids. Yeah. Um, I was saying something like, oh, you know, Elliot's normally late in Lily's bed because the baby's normally in my bed.

And, uh, they were like disgusting it and we realized basically none of, none of us, none of our husbands sleep in the main bed. Mm-hmm. So one of them was like, her baby also sleeps in the bed. Her son sleeps in his room. Then the husband basically sleeps on the sofa because it's like no face. All in different rooms.

Yeah. The other one was like, both her kids sleep in her bed with her and the husband sleeps in the kids' bed, like in their bedroom. There was another person at t we were like, none of us, none of us. Sleep in the same bed as our partner anymore. We're all like, yeah. I think we're all at that stage of life where yeah, the kids are in the bed.

The joy of having particularly two or more children. Yeah. That, yeah. Uh, and it's true. We all had two kids and one was young. Yeah. Yeah. So an actual parenting achievement that sort of highlights the ongoing parenting fail was that recently we stayed over somewhere and like we actually stayed in the same bed, got sleep in the same bed all night, like the first time.

Oh. Weeks at least. I mean, there was a baby between us. There was, but not for the whole. Now how Only part of the night, like very unusual. They're actually end up in the same room at nighttime. Okay. We're gonna get into the meat and potatoes of the uh, podcast. Yep. That is correct. I always like that phrase, meat and potatoes.

Do you think it's 'cause you come from a farming background? Because I always watch a Sunday dinner like, Hmm, meat and potatoes.

Right. Put your baby in the bouncer or in the playpen or lock it up somewhere for a while. And let's jump into our conversation for today, which has actually been suggested to us by, it has one of our listeners. So thank you. Yeah. We're asking about what, what should we chat about next? And this was part of the topic.

We've expanded it into sort of other areas. It is also the first time that, um, I've, uh, consulted. AI about the topic. Yeah. Um, don't worry, I, I'm not like, you know, taking advice from it. Yes. And I'm not leaving podcast production up to, uh, artificial intelligence. But, um, I thought it could be interesting to see what it said added.

Interesting thing that we don't normally do. Oh, a AI's uh, advised me that I should start the podcast by inviting the audience in, by saying, if you've ever felt like you just can't take another noise, touch or mom this episode's for you, there you go. I feel like you can just lie and do it yourself. Jeez.

I don't know if it really sounds like me. It's not my style of That's true. How I. Normally, you know, do the podcast. True. I do, I do like the conversation starter, which might be an interesting point to start and then we can, uh, kind of get into Yeah, true. Uh, some of the, the challenges of this topic, which is often how we approach things, which just moan about, oh yeah, you know what the reality empowering, but people seem to enjoy it.

Yeah. Well, parenting is tough, isn't it? Old parenting is just, you know, there's so many things just, uh, yeah. Anyway. Which sound do you think should be classified as torture? Um, you know, out of noises, our kids make whining, crying, a musical toy that doesn't switch off, that sort of thing. I think Any thoughts?

Yes, but I dunno if this is a northern phrase. Ooh, okay. Go on. Did, because you say whining, I'd say like when they, they're whinging. Oh, whinging. Is that a normal word? I feel like it's, um, good question. I would consider possibly whining and whinging to be slightly different things. A lot of the stuff with the baby, I can really rationalize it to myself by going like, well, she can't help it.

She doesn't have words to express herself yet she can't, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas. With Lily sometimes when I've said, just wait a moment, just in a second sweetheart, and you're like, get to the fourth office his time where you're like, I dunno how many more ways I can nicely say. I will get to that in a second, but I just need one minute to just do this thing first.

Mm. And like it's when you're trying to be gentle parenting, but also in my head, I'm like, if she says that one more time, I'm gonna scream, I'm gonna lose it. Because I've heard this phrase like, Elliot can attest to this. Mm-hmm. What day was it when she go? Mama, mama, mama, mama. It was like continuously.

Yeah. Yeah. And then it kept going. What do you want? What do you want Mama? I want mama, mama. I was like, I would say it happens most days where like, you've gone upstairs. Yeah. Maybe to get Lola ready, maybe to go to the toilet, to dressed. Have a move myself while your toilet. Yeah. Um, and then Lily like notices you've gone and like, it's suddenly like, I want mamma.

I want Mama, where's she gone? I want mama. And she'll like, stand at the bottom. I'm like, what? Like what do, I'm right here. And then I'll be like, she's gone upstairs. I'll explain where she's gone. She's like, but I want, I want mamma. I want mama now. Why hasn't she come back? And I'm, it's like, you're gonna have to wait.

Gonna have to be patient. This doesn't go well. It's not be ending. Crying. Yeah. Because you've been gone for five seconds. Yeah. Um. I think that sets the tone well about what we're gonna be discussing today, which is just that, that whole scenario Yeah. Of how you deal with it. I dunno whether you actually answered the question though.

What was it? Um, like, is that what you're saying? That a, a toddler saying, ma, ma ma ma ma is your thing of what torture is. Yeah. And it sounds really mean, doesn't it? Because it's like, I just want you, but I, I, I think that's the one that gr for me the most because often I'm like, yes. Yes. Yes. And they're just like, mama Ma.

I'm like, yes, I'm answering you, but want she gets so into saying it. She doesn't even, doesn't even like. I think she wants me to come into the room and look it. Well, it's just irrational, isn't it? Yeah. I like and you're right, I think I have a lot more patience with, uh, the baby. Really? 'cause you kind of know she can't help it as much.

Mm-hmm. And I do remember this tra transition with Lily when she kind of went. You know, became a toddler. Mm. And you know, we we're not far, you know, we're almost approaching that phase with Lola where you, you now know she can understand. Yes. Yeah. And I used to get more and more annoyed and increasingly so with Lily.

'cause like, I know you can comprehend this. Yeah, yeah. I know you're still young, but it's tough when you're like, I know you can like regulate your emotions and I know you can understand what's going on. It's mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that whinging is the worst. Especially 'cause it's not like there's nothing you can do about it.

Oh yeah. It's just nonstop. Well, I think in a lot of cases there's nothing you can do about it. And that's, that's the problem. That's the problem. We don't often have many toys that make a lot of noises. Mm. So we don't often have that. You're right. You're right. That question of loud toys that are annoying, we don't have a lot of them.

No. And like the TV shows we watch aren't particularly. Clouded either that there is nothing, there's not many things we have that I think are that overstimulating. Yeah, probably. 'cause intentionally we try not to, I think people will think, um, whether you've picked this up through the podcast or whether you know us, uh, in the real life world and, uh, how, what does Blue say?

It's like for real life or something, would you say? We're quite calm. Yeah. Like we're quite a quiet household. We're quite into gentle parenting, but outside of that, just generally our household is fairly quiet and calm and true. Yeah. So like we don't add to the stimulation, the, the kind of overstimulating stuff purely comes from our kids.

Yeah. But yeah, I think for me it's just like when both kids have lost it. Oh yeah. And they're like both screaming and crying at the same time. And you know, I'm just like. I, I, my, my brain, my brain can't cope with it. My brain is breaking. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We'll get into this, but I think I struggle more with like the audio, the noise over stimulation.

Mm-hmm. And you struggle a lot more with like the physical Yeah, I think that's probably true. Like touch stuff, like with them all over you all the time. Is that fair? Yeah. I think that's partly though. 'cause they don't touch you well. Yes. Yeah. No, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas when they're with you, they, they're fairly quiet.

As soon as you leave, they're both screaming. Yeah. Because they want you back. Yes. You have to deal with That's true. I was gonna say, I remember, it must have been about two, three months ago when both the girls were crying 'cause they both wanted to sit on me and they both were sat on me and then my mum was calling me and I answered and she had a problem with her phone and I had to try and explain that she didn't have a virus even though she saw she had a virus on her phone.

And I remember she kept going like, Emma, Emma. 'cause she like wanted me to pay attention to her. Yeah, I remember. I like, I finally saw it out and put it on the call. And you were just like. How, how didn't you lose it? Like how didn't you lose it with anybody? You didn't lose it with the kids. You didn't lose it with your mom, and I was like, I didn't, but internally I was screaming.

It's kind of what my life's like sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, we'll get into this maybe later on when we talk about if we have any ideas of how to cope with this situation. Not that we're saying, you know, we're not experts. We definitely don't have any good tips and advice particularly, but we can chat about what we think we do.

Yeah. I don't think we're the sort of people that kind of snap, it's not like we reach a threshold. I mean, it'd be interesting, I dunno whether we, it's just we've never reached it or just, you know, I'm trying to get us there. But, um, like it does get too much for us. It's just that doesn't express itself in us, like suddenly then bursting out.

Yeah. Well I, I always have a theory that, 'cause um, my parents shouted a lot and I didn't like that. So I think I purposely do the opposite in that. I'm like, I'll never shout at them. Mm mm Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. This episode wasn't intended to veer into gentle parenting, but it's interesting talking about that, that this is where we've ended up.

But then it does annoy me when Lily shouts. Because I always, when I calm her down, I always go, we don't shower you. Yeah. Why are you showering us? And I think it's helpful you to have told those stories about, it helps paint the picture of what we're talking about, but like what we mean by sensory overload.

So going from a very young baby, a lot of it does fall to you 'cause like. Often the baby is like on someone constantly. Yeah, it's true. Um, and whilst we do split things fairly evenly, more often than not, it that you are holding the baby a lot of the time. Yeah, I think that's true. And I, especially in this with, with Lola, we did breastfeed, so obviously you hold her for feeds and.

Naps and like you just, you're with her all the time. Um, and 'cause Lola was quite sickly, you kind of didn't dare put her down in case you'd throw up as well. Mm-hmm. So she was like a, just a, a constant kind of attachment. Yeah, all the time. Was it different between Lola and Lily? Did you like, were you more overstimulated?

Obviously we've got another kid in the house. There's like an added thing going on there. Yeah. But in terms of the physical touch stuff, I will say, what was, this is, I'm skipping around all over the place. I, yeah, I know. Yeah, that's fine. What was, what was very hard is like none of my bodies my own at all.

The babied rescues from me. Lily is like constantly looking up my top and down my top to see where the milk is coming from. Yeah. Why things are happening. I had nipple shields and she would like want to wear the nipple shields and I felt like being like, don't even, I don't even get my own nipple shields.

Yeah. Nothing is secret. Nothing is just me. Yeah. Like and you already feel like kind of. Maybe not everybody does, but I always felt like very sweaty and like I still cook milk all the time and I just wanted to shower. And, and sometimes I'd sit there as Lily was like also looking at my boob and I was like, it's just a lot.

Yeah, it's a lot. A lot of people focused on mommy's boobs. Yeah. It's just a lot going on today. Yeah. And I try and be nice because I'd be like, it's nice that she wants to know like, this is the mum guilt. I'm like, it's nice that she wants to know, it's nice that she's interested. I should just explain. And I would try and be nice about it, but part of me would be like.

Could you not look at mummy's boob and touch it and could you just not? 'cause then she'd be like, I wanna click the breast pump on for you. And I'd be like, no, 'cause you're gonna put it on the wrong setting. You'd be like, I wanna do this bit. I'd be like, could you not do any of the bits? Could you not help mommy at all?

Yeah. That is a particular mum challenge. Yeah. I think for me. Similar, but obviously not quite, not quite the same thing, but like I've had to adapt being a parent that like none of my stuff is my own anymore. Yeah. No, nothing. Nothing is sacred. Again, probably because I've come from an upbringing where I was an only child.

I had a lot of stuff, had a lot of memory boxes, like we had a lot of things, like memories and things we'd made together like. I was quite precious over some of the things I had, you know, keepsakes and stuff and like slowly over the years, particularly now with Lola, who just destroys everything I like because Lily was very good.

Yeah, yeah. But I've just had to accept that like none of it will survive. Yeah. Like literally. Yeah. And if anything does that's great. I've had to like detach a lot of my sentimentality from these objects. Well, I remember this. When we used to do like checkouts. Yeah. When we were first dating, he'd be like, oh no, we'll keep that.

Yeah. Oh no, we'll keep that. I used to be like, a lot of stuff now gone. I, why are we keeping all this stuff? Yeah. Like I don't retain any of the, the things that were precious to me pre parenthood, they, they're just no, no longer, they don't exist anymore. Like, and I've, I've had to adapt to that because the kids have taken ownership of all of it.

Like, yeah. Like a lot of like. My electronics. A lot of like little things you bought me for birthdays and things. 'cause you know, we were quite, we were quite childish. Childish. Yeah. She used to buy me like remote control R 2D twos and things. Yeah, that's true. Yes. Yeah. Like in the same way you've got a lot of soft, fluffy toys.

Yeah. And all of them have become the kids' toys. Yeah. Like they're all now in the toy box. Yeah. None of them. And like a lot of them now have holes in or are broken. Yeah. Or you know, once again though, mainly through Lola, a lot of it's through Lola. A lot of it through Lola. Yeah. Yeah, and it's not the same, but I kind of, I can see the resonance in.

In if that stuff was my body, that sense of like, yeah, true. I, I no longer, it doesn't feel like mine anymore. Yes. Yeah. Like I no longer have ownership of this. This is just a shared commodity that I have given up for parenthood. Yeah, true. Yeah. I think that's what I felt like a lot, I'll, it'd be hard because like Elliot would try and hug me and I'd be, I'm really.

Please don't, don't touch me like everyone's touching me. Just leave me alone. I think it seemed more natural the second time around. I dunno, it's 'cause I was like prepared for. Cleans. I honestly didn't find, uh, some people might, so, you know, not, not invalidating people's feelings. Mm. But I never find that newborn phase too bad.

Little world. Yeah. I know what you mean. Like it's interesting hearing other people's experiences about struggling with. That obviously, I, I, I can't breastfeed the baby, but I, I, I don't mind that phase with a baby, even if it's a screaming and whatnot. Mm-hmm. Just like walking around with it. Um, with Lola and Lily often they'd be quite unsettled and you'd hand them over to me and like, you know, yeah.

I'd have to like, try and settle 'em down and could take forever. And, but somehow I didn't, I don't find that. Overwhelming. I know. 'cause I know for some people I, we've often had this conversation where people find it 'cause they don't know what's wrong. Yes. 'cause they worry like they don't know what they're doing.

They feel guilty that they're not sure what they're supposed to do. And you kind of just thrown into it. Yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know. I don't think either of us ever kind of had that. Somehow I find Lily's screaming now as a, a toddler and an older child. More grating. Yes, I agree. The baby cry, and I don't know why that is, but I think it's not an angry cry.

Yeah. Because I noticed, I remember when Lily turned about one and a half. And then it would get angry and for some reason that would irritate me more like it, something internally it would make it, once again, it's not their fault. They get angry, but I think as an automatic response, you're like, oh, they're angry.

Yeah. Like, and it kind of makes you, yeah. Angry, or it must be some fight or flight thing. That's why I've struggled more this time around with Lola because trying to get her to sleep. She does do an angry cry. She does? Yeah. Like she really fights it. Yeah. Um, unlike Lily ever did. So it's not just a, like a crying where you need to rock at asleep.

It's like. Thrashing and screaming and like a real angry sort of like, why are you trying to get me to sleep? And that I, I do really struggle with particularly because I know if I gave her a you, she'd go down in an instant. Yeah. Well this is sometimes I, and I'm like, just go to sleep. Sometimes I Come on, you need to sleep.

I can see you're tired. I can't to sleep him. But I think it makes it worse because then he sees Lola, I'm not kidding, it's like within six seconds. Yeah. He hands her over, she snuggles into me and it's like, poof. Yeah. And he, his face had been like, yeah, I've been here for half an hour. Yeah. She hasn't gone asleep.

And she's just screamed at me. And I, I know I'm gonna mess things up now 'cause we're not sticking to our pattern where we said we were gonna get to tips and advice later. Yeah. But I do think this is one of the things that you've. Deal with, and I, yeah, we, we cope, I dunno whether we're just heartless, but we cope with it quite well, which is you've gotta let them, you've gotta, like, get used to other person.

Yeah. You've, you've gotta be comfortable with the idea that if you need a break, you need to give them to your partner or who, you know, if you've got other support around. Hopefully. Yeah. Um, and it might be that. They cry more and that it takes longer. Mm-hmm. But like you, you need that break. Like, so she will cry with me and we put up with that and it's really hard because we know we're putting me through more.

We're putting the baby through more. More. It'll be so much quicker and easier if I just gave her back to you. Yeah. But like that would mean then you are doing everything and then you would get that thing of like, you always have to do it. I also think it kind of, it teaches the baby almost to like, oh, don't worry.

If I cry for long enough mm. Mommy will come for me to sleep. Mm-hmm. Um, and I wanna be like, well, no, daddy will have some nights where he's putting you to sleep and you kind of, yeah, I know you don't want to, but that's just gonna be what happens sometimes. Yeah. Because especially if I'm away off something, there's not a choice.

I can't come save. You know, save the situation. I do, I do sometimes think that I treat the kids a little bit like dogs, where I'm like, we need to train them. Mm. Um, and that is gonna be challenging. And that does mean, you know, with a clingy baby or with whatever the overstimulating thing is, maybe, you know, they're just on you constantly.

Yeah. Maybe it's the noise, whatever. Um, like we need, need to work through that. I find we're in phases where I'm like, you are ill. You're particularly tired like drawing. Oh. Reason why? They could be Oh, we're not purposely depriving them of their mum. No. Like the ability to share that load Yeah. Means that initially we have to go through the hardship of like Yeah.

Training the baby to find comfort in both of us. Yes. Yeah. Because I think this is one of those topics where we're talking about how to look after ourselves more than how to look after our children. True. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes that means we do have to prioritize our own mental wellbeing. Our own, yeah.

Recognizing we're overstimulated. And that sometimes means we have to let the kids cry. And it's really hard because it's a fine line between like, I have to let him do it. But also it's really painful to hear your child crying and know you could just go in and stop it. Yeah. Like I'm often, like, I could go in there.

And I'm often like you okay? And there he's like, yep, he's alone. I wanna prove I can get her sleep. I can do it. And I'm like, I know he can't. I just need to let him. It's just, it's just, it's, it's getting better, but it is painful sometimes when I'm like, I could, I could just go in and I could just, I could just do it to be asleep.

Um, yeah. So it is hard, but I think. In order to have a sane life. Sometimes you're like, well, she'll just have to learn that Daddy puts her to bed sometimes. Just to touch on while we're on babies before we move on to toddlers. Um, I do think, and again, this might not be popular, but um, I think one of the things that's worked in our favor, and it's worked in our favor for quite a number of different elements, um, is that you didn't do a huge amount of breastfeeding.

Yeah, that's true. I think for a lot of. Some, or some of our friends we know, I, I think struggle with that attachment a lot more. Yeah. When they breastfeed more and breastfeed for longer and it's natural. 'cause if the baby has breastfed, they're like, well, that's how I get to sleep. That's my comfort. Yeah.

That's my go-to. Of course, of course thing. It means the baby would be on you more often. Yeah. It gets more of attached to you. Like all of these things then compound. Yeah. Just, just naturally. It's just the way it is. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and you can't do anything about that. But I think we've avoided some of those things.

Yeah. We've avoided that because. We stopped at six months and I never exclusively breastfed. We always mixed fed. We always mixed fed. Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, it made that easier because it meant kind of, she was used to taking feeds with you. So it helps with everything about like helping down. We knows loads of moms who.

They can only put the baby to sleep. Yeah. Because the only way the baby goes to sleep is being on a boob. Yeah. So like there's no way the dad can do it. Yeah, exactly. Whereas, and that, that's how you like, that's the struggle. 'cause then you, you literally know you are like somebody's on your all the time.

Yeah. Like. I think that's what it is, isn't it? Um, it's so hard though because I'm part, part of me is like, in some ways there's nothing wrong with that. Like that is how nature intended for babies to be. It's just that our modern lives don't fit with it. Of course. Yeah. Like, so it's frustrating sometimes those mums don't have the support structures that they probably would've done.

Yeah. When in a society where they would've been the primary carers 24 7. Yeah. True. And like these days when a mom is just kind of at home all day with a baby. Mm-hmm. You can see how the overstimulation and Yeah. This stuff, you know, the only just gets to, yeah. It just gets to you, doesn't it? Whereas again, another of our advantages is we are both always at home.

Yeah. You know, we both work from home, so if it ever gets too much for you. Yeah. And you have been the primary carer for Lola. True. Yeah. You know, you've had a longer maternity. Um, but I'm always there. You can always pass her off to me. You know, if you need five minutes, if you need to, you know, go to the toilet or whatever.

Yeah. Especially sometimes I'm like, I just wanna go to the toilet by myself. Yeah.

No yawning. Emma, this is the little bit in the middle where we've gotta tell our listeners all about the to click, click, tap, tap, click, click tap. Tap the buttons, please tap, tap. Do, um, get involved. Follow us on social media. Don't make The Baby Underscore podcast on YouTube or on, um, Instagram. Or please follow us on the TikTok.

I'm my little old man. You are more up with the ticky talk. I'm more up with the ticky talk. Yes, yes. We're we're both involved on Instagram though, so you can, yeah. Uh, Emma tends to do a lot of stories and I do a lot of reels, so follow us there. Um, we'd love to hear from you do get involved with the community.

Um, recently we've switched our community over, so as well as the Facebook group, which, uh, is still there, but doesn't really work particularly well. We do have a WhatsApp community. We do. Um, so we would encourage you if you'd like to chat with us directly, if you'd like to link up with other listeners and share mutual support, chat about episodes or just generally, you know, share how parenting is going and find a connection to other moms and dads out there.

Who are listeners, then you can join our WhatsApp group. There's links to that on our website about how you can do that. Yeah. Join, yeah. Sort of stuff, you know, those things. Um, um, yeah, but there's lots of good conversation going on in there as well as like behind the scenes and updates and you can be involved in like, helping us shape what episodes we, we do, what topics we talk about.

Yeah. What's coming up, uh, like behind the scenes of what's going on in our lives. 'cause like we don't. Share pictures of our kids and things on social media, but yeah, true. We, we share a bit more in the privacy of that group. So, um, you know, it's a, a smaller intimate space where it's safe to connect with other people.

So if that's of interest, we'd highly recommend it. You can find all the stuff on our webpage, www dot kara movement org uk slash don't Wake the Baby. Um, and that is because we do this project in partnership with the Kairos Movement, uh, which is a sort of. A faith-based organization within the Methodist Church, a grassroots movement of, uh, people exploring spirituality in new and different ways.

Mostly online and discussion based. Um, yeah. You don't have to know what it is or you don't have to be involved. Yeah. Or whatever you do. Do whatever you want. Just, just, just so you know, like where we get our support from and where we get our oversight and funding and other bits and pieces from to do this project.

His, uh, is that every, is that everything we need to say? I think so. Five minutes. Peace please.

So like, as they begin to get more mobile and it's less about those sort of baby things that kind of drive you up more. Mm. But more like. The way they follow you around the house. Yeah. The way that like they're clinging onto your leg when you're trying to cook. Yeah. Or like, you know, Elliot was laughing at that yesterday.

Yeah. And again, it's like, it's different for both of us because like I can put an activity out or put something interesting and Lola will just, you know, and Lily would as well, she would just be engaged with that and I could cook quite happily by myself. Yeah. Whereas if you are there, yeah. They're all over you.

I never cook by myself. Yeah. I either have to hold Lola or Helio was slapping us because you were sat with both the girls in one room. Then Lola was like padding into the kitchen, which I'm used to hearing a little creature follow you. Like, oh, where are you going? Uh, he came behind it and then he was laughing.

'cause like I was stood at the cooker. This little creature was like gring. My leg was like trying to climb me to be like, pick me up. Do something with me. 'cause it's also like adorable. Like, it's so nice. Sometimes when I hear a padding through I'm like, oh, she's looking for me. Hmm. Like it's a mixture of cute and then sometimes when you're like, but I just want it to cook in peace.

Yeah. Alone. Yeah. With nobody. Um, yeah. So it it, I think the problem is, it also depends on my mood. 'cause sometimes I'm quite like, oh, they're adorable. They love me so much sometimes where you're like, please get off me, please. Just let me breathe a little bit. Especially 'cause I think if you listen to our last episode, when they were both ill, they would just like, they didn't even wanna sit on me together.

They would just try and push each other off me for one of 'em to be sat on me. Mm-hmm. And I'm like right there being like, come on, come have a hug with me. Yeah. And he kept going, who wants to come on daddy's knee? Come on. Like, nope, neither of them want to. And like yeah. That's one of the ones where we, you know, we, we gave, you had to beg them.

You had to be like, you have to get off, mommy. She hasn't eaten. Yeah. She cannot eat a meal with you both laid on her. Um, and sometimes, you know, if we were to do, take our own advice from earlier, I might literally physically pick one of them off your knee and like take them upstairs and they would be screaming.

Yeah. But I would then like try and settle 'em down. We'd have a nice time upstairs, have some space, and then come back down. Mm-hmm. But sometimes, you know. Yeah. Okay. Well, we sometimes we're like, just let 'em lie on me. Yeah, yeah. Like save safe as draw. That's too much work right now. How, yeah. How much energy have we got?

Yeah. To like, to fight it. To fight this. Yeah. Going on. But I think that's, again, it's all credit to you as well. 'cause like you say, you, you have a, an awful lot of love for both kids. And in some ways I think this is one of those areas where. We slightly embody the other gender stereotypes as we sometimes do in our parenting roles.

Not, you know, not the stereotypes, like can do whatever you want in life, but, you know, like I, I was just noticing how on the AI thing about what we should talk about was, was suggesting a conversation about the, the paradox of like. Loving your kids, but also wanting space from your kids and about sometimes the like, you know, the emotional drain as well.

Mm-hmm. And sometimes I think parents feel guilty that like, you know, I love my kids so much, but actually right now I need some space from the ones I love. Yeah. Um. Like you were saying, your tolerance and like thing is quite extreme. Yeah, I'm, whereas I'm normally the one that's actually like, particularly this year, I've really struggled a bit more with what would stereotypically we would call like mum guilt and Yeah, true.

Not feeling adequate. Like there's, I've. I've struggled with the sensory stuff a lot more. Mm-hmm. And like feeling like I'm not doing a good job and like all that stuff. And so it is all interconnected, isn't it? Yeah. 'cause part of it is about the fact that they are all over you. Yeah. True. And like, they scream when they're with me and like, yeah.

Which isn't good for your mental health. Do you know what? It's not great, but like Yeah. I, I've been struggling a lot with all sorts of things with lack of sleep and like, just, it's been really challenging with two kids now. Yeah. Um. So I, I think I have a lot more of those thought, like common thoughts of feeling like I want space from these kids, and then feeling guilty of like, ah, but that's, I feel bad that I want space from, because we we're both trapped inside with the kids all day long.

Oh yeah. Because that's true. That's again, the downside of. Working from her. Yeah. What we were talking about earlier is often moms feel a bit jealous or whatever of, you know, people go out, a dad that gets to go out for work and leave the craziness of the house. Um, but yeah, we are often both trapped with it.

Yeah, true. Um, and you just deal a lot better with it than I do. Yeah. I dunno if it's also just 'cause I grew up with a big family so that I've always had a lot true of noise and Yeah. Not much personal space and like Yeah, that's a good point. I just wonder if that's almost, I'm accustomed to that. That is your normal baseline.

Yeah. So it's, there's lots of people sound, so lots of people growing up with like people the same age as me, so we'd all be snugged up together. You're all touchy feely. Yeah. Like you're very close obviously as, so I always think it's almost forts you're all Yeah. Know I, I've had that from being very little, so to me that's not.

Yeah. Necessarily as over simulating it would be for other people? Yes. Yes. Or as you, like an only child. You, I'm an only child, a very quiet house. I'm only, I'm an introvert. Like, I always liked my personal space. Mm-hmm. Like, I like doing stuff alone. I, you know, I like quiet, like currently, like just the complete opposite of everything.

Yeah. In your life. That our life is at the moment. Yeah, I suppose that that prob You're right, that probably does it, it completely explain why I've struggled more, because I was thinking like, why doesn't it bother me so much? And I thought, well, I guess that's just been, that's been my way, my life's always been.

Mm-hmm. Like, so it just doesn't, it's not as odd, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm not saying it's like, oh, I, I never get overstimulated. It's just, I think it's just a, I have like a higher tolerance level Yeah. For overstimulation. Yeah. Um, where did we get to? We were talking about toddlers. Um, yes. Oh, I was gonna say, uh, this harks back to baby, but it kind of fits toddler, right?

So, um, like a good, a good tip. Somebody said, it's like, like toddlers often need attention, but they don't always, like, they do need physical touch, but sometimes they just need you kind of to acknowledge what they're doing or to like distract 'em another way. So like with Lily, it used to be very nice about breastfeeding.

Like I, I was like putting them to bed where I could just read a story. Yeah. And she was quite happy for me to read the story and she wouldn't have to be like all over me. She was just happy for me to be paying attention and being like reading the story. She turned the pages. Hmm. This is, I think there's things like that you can do once they're an age where they can understand, you can be like, maybe let's not.

Be all over each other, but let's do something where I'm paying a lot of attention to you and you're, you are getting that need. Yeah. But not in a physical way. I think, I think that's something that's particularly come into play with two children is, you know, the extra strain of you can no longer give full attention just to one child.

You have two children that Yeah, both want your attention. You have to split, you know, and try and give a hundred percent to both children. So they both feel like they've, you know. Got you. And sometimes as parents, you know, you're so caught up in. The needs of one child, you, you immediately shut down. Yeah, that's true.

You can't, it's really difficult to split, isn't it? And, and focus on two things at once. So sometimes you are to a toddler, you'll just be like, wait a minute, mommy's do you know, mum's breastfeeding at the moment. Yeah. Mommy's doing this. You know? But actually just giving a small acknowledgement, a small bit of attention.

Yeah. Even if it's not fully what they need right now can go a long way. Yeah. I think it just pacifies much be, oh, mommy is. Doing something with me. Yeah. She's paying attention. Like at one point I used to make Lily help me wash bottles with the baby. So now I'd be like, oh, you've been such a good help for Mummy.

So good. And she'd be quite happy doing that. 'cause she feels like she's being useful and helpful. Yeah. But not having to, you know. I mean, we're into tips and advice territory here, Aren, aren't we? That is true. Yeah. Um, which we can shift into, which, um, yeah, I mean, distractions basically. Yeah. Like that's a good way, isn't it?

Like activities, particularly as you move into the toddler years. Yeah. Um, you can do stuff and you know, and when you have one child, particularly like before we had Lola, I remember it. We used to have slight. Disagreements about this. 'cause I wanted to put a lot of focus on that independent play. Yes, true.

Because I, again, it was that my approach of like training a dog. Yeah. It was sort of like trying to move us into a phase where we are reducing the overstimulation. Because if they come to expect a hundred percent of your attention all of the time. True. Sometimes you can shoot yourself in the foot because then you never get a break.

I think I do. I think that's what I do. Yeah. But I, it's what feeds into mom guilt. 'cause I'm like, I should be giving them a hundred percent of my attention. Yeah. Whereas I was, why did I have kids if I wouldn't give them attention going like, it's okay. You can just ignore them for a bit. Yeah. Like I, I would sit in a room with Lily and she would play by herself and I would just, you know, like, chip in now and again.

Yeah. But yeah, as we, we didn't do that. Even now. Even now. That happens a lot. Yeah. Like, um, before bedtime, we alternate each night who puts which kid to bed, which is probably another good tip for. Making both kids go do bedtime drop if you can. Like, if someone's not working. Um, a common activity that Lily does before bed is play with Lego.

Yeah. Um, most nights with both of us, but we have very different styles of playing with Lego or bricks or dolls or whatever. Yeah. Anything, whatever activity like that where I'm only kind of. Passively involved. Often we're playing the same thing, but next to each other. Mm-hmm. And we'll both kind of comment on what each other are doing and I'll be like, what are you making, Lily?

And she'd be like, I'm making this. She's like, what are you making daddy? I'm making this. And this is how the game will go for us both. Yeah. Whereas you two are like very involved in each other's game. Well, we're not, we don't ever really build with the Lego. Ours is entirely character based. Oh wow. So like we literally have like the little Lego figures and whatever you've built the night before is what we play with normally.

And then. She, I think she also knows Mommy's not fantastic at building Lego and we, we literally just talk the figures to each other and they do stuff and yeah. So I was like more like a play, imaginative play. Yeah. Where you're like, this character's gonna do this. Oh, your character's gonna do this. Yeah.

So you have characters story based. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, much more a story kind of role play. And actually they do like both kids, like they play very differently with both. Oh yeah. Us, they relate to us very differently. You know, like we, we've often said before, like they do come to you for that comfort. Yeah.

You are the like main caregiver. Yeah. And I don't get too caught up in the fact that like. Like neither of them will like they do sometimes, but most of the time they won't come for me. Just for like a hug and a cuddle. Yeah, true. Because they want to be comforted, like mm-hmm. But they will both come to me if they want to play.

Yeah. Yeah. And like they want to be entertained if they want to do something physical, fun. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like, and that isn't actually my kind of cup of tea all the time. Yeah. I'm not a dad that's really into all the physical play. Mm-hmm. But that is how, that's what they want. Their primary way of Yeah.

How, what they want from me. So, you know, I kind of just lean into that. I think there's a problem for a lot of moms because we are their comfort. We are the kind of person that will, they'll be most tactile with. Yeah. So I think if you are gonna get kind of. Overwhelmed it is gonna be because they're like, I want to lay on you all the time.

Mm. And I want to touch you. Or with toddlers, you know, once you get to the point where they're chatting and speaking. Yes. It's the same thing, isn't it? Often we'll find Lily will talk incessantly to you. Oh yeah. Um, and she often does now with me as well. I mean, yeah, she, Lily Lily's moving outta the toddler phase really.

She's, you know, she's four. But, um, particularly, you know, maybe a year ago or so, like. Often she wouldn't like do a lot of that chatting with me. No, true. So like I would get some peace and quiet. Whereas with you, it would just be incessant talking. Yes, true. It was so incessant. It'd be like she'd tell you a whole day, but kind of right from start to finish, finish.

But with every single little detail that happened the day it was like, then I put my shoes on, then I went outside, then I saw this outside and you, you'd be sat there. This is very interesting. Quite intense. Yeah. Um, and of course, depending on the age, often it's in like toddler speak. Yeah. Where you've gotta try and interpret it.

'cause it's kind of a bit, you know Yeah. Mumbled and not fully pronounced yet. Yeah. And they will get frustrated if you don't understand. So like, you've gotta engage your brain a hundred percent. Yeah. Trying to decipher what it is they're telling you. Especially it's parents when they're a bit younger, you can give kind of Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I would do that a lot. Responsive. A lot of it, I'm just like, it's just, just the way they are like. A lot of the time. I dunno if that's good advice. I'm like, it's, it's not really, not really helpful. But anyway, that's a bit, that's gonna have to go back into the earlier bit of the episode.

Yeah. So let's switch. Yeah. I'm so sorry. Future Elliot. Let's switch back into our bit again. This is gonna be a shorter episode. It really hasn't been No. Um, into Don don't over any good. We're going all over. Um, I think we're covering a lot of good ground. It's just messy. Yes. Um, okay. I think this section's gonna be short anyway.

'cause I don't know that we have a lot of good tips and advice. I mean, looking at what AI said, it did just confirm what we were saying, like just validate the favorite parent thing without competing. It's not actually provided any advice for how. When your kid says, no, not you, daddy, like what you actually do.

It's not giving me any advice for that, which is no good at all. Right. Let's see, what, what other advice have you got? Ai, because we are coming up blank. What can we do? Well, I think like what I, I worry, it's so hard because I think especially people told us in a nonstop, when Lily was little, they kept saying to me, oh, well you won't be the favorite parent forever.

When it changes, it'll feel different. And I remember I kept being like, every year it's the same. But also we, we have had periods where it has switched like it, it's not to say the entire time, yeah, they've been auntie daddy and only want mommy. Like, oh no, no. They like, they have a great affection for you.

It's just, it's not like. I do think, 'cause we've got girls and like the relationship, like dads and daughters, I do think what they're talking about is in like five years time. Yes, true. Um, not like the, just the people said it to me. They acted like it would be soon. And I'm not saying I don't like, well I do sometimes.

Like being the favorite. Yeah. Really depend on the situation. But it's when they used to say it to me and I'd be like, well, when? Yeah, when, when. But what I was gonna say in those short periods where the girls have come to me for stuff or whatever, or been more thing with me, like, that's not made you feel jealous.

You've not been like, oh, I missed this. You've been like, oh, that's lovely for Ellie. Yeah, I could be like, because I feel terrible. Like sometimes it's when they go. I don't want daddy. And he sat right there and I'm like, what? What a way to, a way to hurt someone's feeling. So I could, Lily goes to him like one night, she said like, I want daddy to put me to bed.

And I thought, well that's really nice. Yeah. Like, that's really nice. You want daddy to put you to bed now instead of me. Like one day she wanted to go out with you instead of me. She's like, I want daddy to tame me up today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, great. Like, so there is hope, like there is, if you've got a young baby at the moment who's very clingy, like we've not yet got to the point where it's like completely flipped or anything.

Yeah, no. Like obviously most of the time you are still the go-to. Yeah. But it doesn't, it doesn't stay that same level of clinginess forever. Well, I say, and it's also not like, yeah. When they're ill, they both want me. We have quite a happy, other than Lola, obviously she's young, she wants mommy, but with Lily, which means you can see the future of Lola.

Yeah. She's like genuinely very happy having a day out with Daddy. She's very happy like. Know what I mean? If, if she gets to pick, she often would pick mummy, but she's not like, she's very happy just spending time with you. I mean, and looking at this thi this is one of the pieces of advice. It, it suggests mental reframing.

Remind yourself this is temporary, it's developmental. Uh, and it's not a, a failure of patience. Like things will change. Yeah. Um, and and it's not anything you're doing wrong right now. No. True. Um, that often this is just a develop dev developmental stage, you know? Yes. A child is in True. If they're coming to you and being very clingy, that's often because that's what they need.

Yeah. True. Which I know in the moment won't make you any better. No, but it does. Sometimes I just tell myself, I'm like, they can't help it. Natural. Yeah. Okay, so let's switch gears a little bit in talking about then. Okay. So trying to avoid some of that guilt but actually cope with. Mm. Need, you know, having to do some of that sometimes.

How, what are some coping tactics, um, to cope with some of the overstimulation, whether it's noise or touch or anything like that. You often have your headphones in. Yeah. I mean, we've mentioned this before. Yeah. I'm a big podcast listener. I like. Basically try and zone out. I mean, I don't know if this is good, like, it's like temporary coping, temporary relief.

Yeah. I, I wouldn't say it's ideal for like long-term, but yes. A lot of this year I've been like, just because you can't. Physically escape the, the space. Like, I can't get out like, at least with some headphones in, like, and they're little, you know, little wireless ones. So the kids don't always realize, yeah.

Um, that I'm not like mentally present, but I'm just like, well, I can just sit here. Everyone's screaming, everything's chaos. But at least like I can just try and focus on these people talking in my ears. And I, I must admit, I do use that now for like. If I'm putting Lo to bed and she's a bit unsettled, I think it does help me keep calmer.

It's not even just like it's just noise really. Mm. But having something else to focus on rather than the crying. I mean, it's interesting isn't it? 'cause this is almost the opposite of what you might expect. Like a lot of the advice is trying to carve out time for sensory downtime. Mm. Like finding some space, however brief to go and.

Try and get away from some of the stimuli. And actually my main advice is like adding another thing on top. Do you wanna like adding another sensory thing on top of it? But, but I guess it depends what's restful to you, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um. Yeah. Do you find, like, do you sometimes feel like you need to just go and sit in a quiet room and just like decompress or, or just like get away from every, like, everyone touching you all the time or like Yeah, I mean, I think one of my main, one of my main things I do is I have like an internal monologue.

Where I'm going. Like they can't help it. They can't help it. They can't help it again, like this is a bit like my headphones. It feels like a good temporary. Yeah. This doesn't feel like a very good long term solution. No, but I think, 'cause I know like it won't be that forever. I just tell myself like, well, she's a baby.

She can't help it. Yeah. She just wants Oches. And I think almost that internal monologue. When they're getting like over the top, just helps you to remember they're very little. Yeah. And they have emotions and they just need you sometimes and like. Yeah. It's difficult, but they're, they're tiny. Like there's not much you can do.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, I like my met. Well, I absolutely, this is also what is maybe a good hint. I had a, um, a night away with my sister Kirsty. We went to Liverpool to see Andre. And Oh, that was so nice. Just having one night ladies. I mean, men too. If you're overstimulated and you can leave the baby with somebody overnight, it's because I wasn't even gone that long.

But just having one night in a hotel where I could drink wine. Yeah. And just turn off like I didn't have, think about anybody else but myself. Yeah. Was so nice. Even now. When I get like a bit like, oh, I look back at those pictures. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I'll do that. I, I can do that again one day. Yeah. I saw an article about this recently, um, and I'm really struggling to remember the, the exact words they used, but they were saying that actually an awful lot of parents are struggling with like a super high level of like constant.

Overwhelmingness. Yeah. Where they're sort of just, I can't remember how they described it, but I, I really resonated with what, how they were just saying like, you know, that sort of going through the motions of life at, at this constant heightened state, you are aware of everybody's needs all the time. Oh, I don't, I don't know, like sort of process is up here.

Like, you're like, oh, I'm super aware of what's happening. Just overwhelmed constantly and Yeah. And I, I. Look back on, you know, my birthday week away, which is a highlight of this year. Yeah, I too look back on like stuff like that and like you return to your, like your happy place. But I would say again, I don't know if this is a good tip.

I mean it's a good tip, but. I feel like we're falling into that trap of like we are short term life. We are becoming so overwhelmed with it that we need like a full break away to recover where really, and we've been advised of this many times and never succeeded in managing it, is to build in a regular rhythm of Yeah.

You know, like once a week we both go out and do something we want to do on our own without the kids. You know, an activity, a club, a meetup. I managed up, before I had Lola to go to the gym. You used to go to your weights class thing? Yeah. And that was like nice. Something you could do away from everyone or like date nights and things.

Yeah. Like a lot of people recommend keeping up that regular rhythm of just a short amount of time every week to. Yeah. Rather than what we've done, which is just struggle on, get to the point where you kind of, you've reached your limit and then we're like, well we we're gonna need like a weekend away. We need it.

Yeah. Because we're gonna need something. Um, I think we struggle though 'cause like we need childcare and it's just, it's just challenging. Oh yeah. It's super challenging but also recently had my nails done and like you spend an hour just sat there having an and it's so nice. Mm. I'm like that, you know, it's like retail therapies, therapy.

I'm like, it's, wouldn't you have like a beauty treatment done and you can just sit? So this is an interesting thing to see. See if we fall into the stereotypes again or not. Yeah, true. Um, do you like, can you, even though it's like an hour away, I remember it took a long time and I was left with both kids, like near bedtime.

It was Oh dear. Yeah. Like were you able to fully like, relax and like enjoy that? Yeah. See that's interesting. Whereas like when I go out the occasion is I go out to like work meetings and stuff and actually get to leave the house. I'm not, I'm not going to do something particularly fun, but at least I'm escaping like it's like an escapism.

Yeah. You know, I do have that guilt thing where I'm like, I've left both kids with Emma. She's gonna be like struggling on with them and I'm here enjoying being able to just sit with a coffee in a meeting. Yeah. And I don't dunno that at all. I think I did when Lola was younger, but now I'm like, this is great.

I was talking to the, the other moms about this. 'cause one of them in our friendship group, uh, her little girls just started nursing and she's like, I dunno what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna feel so bad at me. And the other one were like, oh, we love it. And I said, it's, it's hard. Initially I said, but. You get to a point and you're like, great.

Like today I don't have to, and it's like I do still look at my phone in the nursery app occasionally, but most of the time now I've got to a point where I'm like, well, that's great all day. I don't have to think about that. Yeah. Like I can just section it off. Till the time comes around when I'm gonna have, you know what I mean?

Have the kids again, uh, which you right. Probably more of a mom thing. But yeah, I'm, I'm quite good at switching off and just being like, cool. It's just me. Great. Yeah. Yeah. I I, it's interesting, again, I see a lot of moms who really value like taking a break when dad gets in and they go and have like a long bath and things to decompress, but that's never something that you've ever really, there was no way I'd have a bath by myself.

Is it? Somebody asked me, but we could, we could arrange that. Like, but you've never been like, I really need to go for a bath now. No, that's true. Like, just, it's just interesting. No, I mean, I mean, I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy it, I'm just saying I, I think often the screams of the children outside the door I think would be worse.

Uh, we'd love to know your tips. Um, yeah, we're gonna really have to wrap up this episode. 'cause again, it's, I've got dragged on. Um, yeah. Usually our, our time limit is focused on the baby's nap and she'll wake up and then that will like cut off. Yeah. But, but both the kids are out. Yeah. One's at school, one's at nursery.

So we've not got anyone to tell us to stop talking so that we've just kept going. Maybe this is another tip, like once they can't, you kind of have regular childcare, which I know it's 'cause you're working, but. I often use my time working to relax, so I'm just gonna enjoy sitting and doing my work and drinking a hot drink and like.

You know? Yeah. That's why we do the podcast. Yeah. It's a bit like our little version of a date night where we True. Get a moment, like an hour once every now and again to sit and chat and decompress. We need to do a date night again. Yeah. We've not had one. It's partly 'cause I'm greedy. I'm like, I'd really love to go up for a Chinese together again.

Yeah. I don't have, we have, we had one this year. I don't know, we've had a date, but we took the baby. Do you remember to the cinema. But we're going to go see Wicked, just us. Oh yeah. We'll, we'll go and try and do that just by ourselves. Yeah. Oh, that'll be fun. Yeah. Cinema date. Yeah. Be like young teenagers.

Right? Okay. AI tells me I need to tell you it's okay to need space from the people you love most. Oh, definitely. Oh, as you've heard, I have no guilt about it. Optional closing reflection. We talk a lot about giving our kids comfort, but sometimes the best gift is showing them how adults care for themselves too.

That is true ai. There we go. Feel like it could be like a character. We'll see like a little robot in the corner that goes. The best thing is looking after yourself. Let us know if you've liked the little AI bits in this so we can discuss whether we can like, do that again, or if that's not our third toast, that's not a good idea or not the robot.

Um, but thank you for joining us in the, uh, the blanket for today. Yeah. Uh, this cozy wind today. Um, I hope you've enjoyed it a bit more of a like slightly serious conversation. Yeah. I suppose, um, it'd be really fascinating to know. How, how you cope with all this stuff, whether it affects you or not, uh, whether you relate to what we say.

Um, and my main thing, use it as an excuse to go out somewhere and have a break. Like if you are feeling tapped out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do make sure you've left someone with the kids. Oh yeah. Somebody you trust. But I'm saying, I think a lot of moms don't wanna take time for themselves. Don't be afraid for standing up for yourself.

Becausecause, they feel guilty. They're like, oh no, I, this is what I need. I don't wanna 'cause it inconvenience someone. I'm like, well do it. You tell your man, just do it. I need a break. I need a break, mate. Come on. I'll just do what I do. And I'm like, look, I've booked something Don. Yeah, God bless. Sleep.

Well, and until next time. Don't wake the baby Yaba. Do. That's not, you're gonna get copyrighted. You can't do that. Do, do you even know what it's from? We won't get copyrighted. What's it? It's fine. Do you know what that's from? Uh, Scooby-Doo, no. Flintstone Flintstones. I knew when he did it. I like, he does not know this show.