Second-Time Parents | We discuss preparing to go from one to two

How are we preparing for our second child? What are our plans to help our toddler adjust to a baby sister? Will we do anything differently this time around? This is the one where Emma and Elliot chat about their hopes, ambitions, and expectations of going from one child to two - and we'll see what it looks like in reality! From expectations and complications of getting pregnant again, to tips for introducing the older sibling to the new baby - how is it different this time around? They take an honest look at what's ahead, from cautious excitement to sleepless dread.

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Unwind on sleepless nights to a wholesome mix of parenting, humour, and crafting. We’re not here to provide answers but to share our experiences, explore how parenting has changed, and build an online community of parents for mutual support.

A fun, honest and unscripted conversation between Emma and Elliot on non-judgemental parenting and millennial-based topics, as we relax on an evening doing a craft or creative activity. 

We are a project in partnership with The Kairos Movement and supported by The Methodist Church, of which The Kairos Movement is a part.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:10 Parenting Achievements
• 6:35 Expectation of Pregnancy
• 13:22 Main conversation part 1
• 20:45 Why we do the show segment
• 23:40 Back to the conversation
• 47:40 Stories from Listeners

Transcript

 So, Emma, what are we talking about today? Uh, today we are talking about preparing for baby number two. 

This episode is called Second Time Parents. 

Welcome, dear parents, to another night in the Crippen household. The toddler is asleep, so it's time to chat about modern parenting. Hop on board the imaginary squashy sofa next to us and join the conversation. Uh, we like to chat about Parenting in a non judgmental way with plenty of 90s references and funny stories and being open about the realities of, of parenthood.

Yeah. We have a three year old and another one on the way. I'm one half of your host here. I'm Elliot. I'm the young one. 

I'm the other half of your host, Emma, and I'm the older one. By two and a half years? Yeah, it's barely anything. He's acting like I'm ancient. No, no, I didn't, I didn't mean it as an insult. I thought I'd try and slip this one in here because it's, it's a few days till my birthday. It's true. And at the moment we have what feels like the biggest gap between us.

Yeah, before his birthday. It's like three years, it seems like. And at the moment we're straddling the 30, uh, age  divide as well. Um, and I've just been contemplating recently that as we bump into and chat with other parents, I always feel like everyone's so much older than me. Yeah, he's gonna be 29. See, I know this because I've been preparing for his 30th birthday.

Not this year? Or next year? Well, it is next year. Is it? Yeah! No, you're 29 this year. Oh dear. You're 28 right this second, but your birthday's on the weekend. Then a whole year goes by and you turn 30. Who knows what's going on? I don't know. 

Parenting Achievement Unlocked! What parenting achievement are we discussing today? Do you wanna explain? Because I don't think last time when we were recording, I don't think Lilly had started going to ballet yet. No. So Lily goes to ba I mean, it's the summer now, so she's not currently going. But generally, she goes to ballet every Monday night after nursery for about 45 minutes, I think?

Because it's the younger group. Yeah. Actually, growing in confidence. Because for the first few weeks, I had to basically do all the dancing with her. Which as you can imagine, as I've got steadily more pregnant, has become quite challenging when they sit on the floor and then get back up. But in the last few weeks she's been really good.

Um, it's like,  been doing a lot more of it by herself. And she really loves dancing. But anyway, last, is it last week?  Two weeks ago last week, sometime like that. I was at, um, Methodist conference. Which is terribly exciting.  And so it meant it was up to Elliot, because I wasn't here, to take Lily to ballet.

Yeah.  I was ecstatic about this. I mean, it's nice, it's been lovely her going to ballet. And when she comes out of ballet, I come pick you up. And she's so excited, she runs across to see me, always gives her me, gives me her little sticker. And then once we get home, she like, re does some of the moves.  Daddy can see what was mildly excited to be like, oh, I get to see her.

But I knew, I knew what Lily was like. I was like, she's going to make me dance and everyone's going to be sat around and all the, the little toddlers are going to be up doing their thing. And I'm going to be with them  that, and I'm pretty self-conscious at the best of times.  And I was like, I really don't want to do that.

That's not. And also I was like, I'll probably be the only dad there. Because it's normally mums that take their little daughters to ballet. So I was like, ugh. But as it turned out, that didn't happen. Because I took Lily and she wouldn't dance at all. Just sat and sulked  and was like, nope, this is a mama activity.

Why are you here? Why is Baba brought me? I was like, this is great. I tried to encourage her, I was like, I'll come up with you, I'll do the dancing. She was like, no, I just want to sit here and look sulky.  So I messaged him after, how did dancing go? And he was like, well, I mean, we attended.  We didn't dance. 

Would you not dance with her? He was like, no, that wasn't the problem.  She wouldn't get up off the seat. She wouldn't dance at all. Yeah,  there we are. Yes. I shall say in the next week. I went back with it, and the first thing she said, Daddy cannot come, he's working. She's like, don't, please, please don't let daddy come again.

Don't let daddy come again. And she was really good, because it was the last lesson, and I actually got a certificate. And they had to, like a little, I say routine, it was very simple like.  But she went up by herself, and did her little routine. A lot of it isn't, Like proper ballet. No. It's kind of running about.

And learning to point your toes and go on your tiptoes and stuff like that. Yeah, it's very, it's very, it's doing a lot of fun, really. Yeah. Um, so she actually did this little routine by herself, which she did really well, because I was proud because she went up by herself and got a certificate and did it.

Um, once again, though, Baba didn't see that because No, I've still never seen her dance. Never got to see this wonderful skill she has. Have you seen my recordings? Yeah. Um,  Oh well. But never a person. I mean, on the plus side, I did, uh, alleviate one of my fears in that it just so happened the one week I went, like, four other dads turned up, uh, so I wasn't the only man.

So yeah, it was a bonus. Me and some of the other mums were calling it Dad Week, because it turned out most of the dads were going that week for some reason or another. Yeah. There we are. So there's a little story from us. Um, do you have a parenting achievement this week? What level of parenting have you unlocked?

Does that sound relatable? Do you have things like that that happen in, in your life as a parent? Um, let us know, let us know your parenting fails, your parenting stories. Get involved with the community over on Instagram or on Facebook at don't wick the baby underscore podcast. Uh, I share a lot of stuff on our Instagram stories where you can let us know and feed in your, your stories.

What's going on and we'll share it on a future episode and stay tuned till the end of this episode right here To hear some parenting stories people have sent in. Yeah 

Right then keep pushing that pram or push chair and let's uh jump into talking about our topic for today So this episode is actually one that was suggested to us by one of our listeners, which has been fantastic. It was such a good idea Basically, it's kind of our expectations our hopes How we're planning how we're preparing Uh, for our second one on the way.

You know, our first ever episode we did was all about the realities of being first time parents. Yeah. And so this is kind of a bit of that heading into our second child. And then we'll do a follow up episode in like, you know. Where we'll probably say we've been entirely wrong about everything. Yeah, exactly.

Like six months time and we'll see what the reality actually looks like. So before we kind of dive into the specifics of that, kind of starting from the beginning of the story as we like to do, having a second baby. You know, we're, we're approaching this topic as if that's a, a given. Yeah. Uh, I'm kind of just being a little bit aware and sensitive to the fact that that's not a journey that everyone wants or that everyone goes on or that, you know.

We've got a mixture of friends. They either have had the first one and said, that is enough. Yeah. We can't go through that again. Or the people for various reasons may have struggled to have a second one. Mm. Um. If you're long time listeners, you'll know that for a long time, we've. Very openly said, like, ah, we're kind of, we want two children, we're hoping for two children, um, and that's what we're aiming for.

But I know it is very frustrating, and even we have this, as people who openly said we wanted another child, blowing people, you have one child, and you get to like, I don't know, about, Two, maybe slightly less. It was younger than that. Yeah, and everyone starts going, uh, when, when are you having another one? 

And especially someone who's had a c section and will be having another c section. Um, I felt like being like, my body has not healed.  I need to have sufficient time for my body to be fully healed and be back to normal before I contemplate. Basically going through that whole journey again, um, and I think people don't appreciate that even if you haven't had c section It takes two years for all your hormones just to go back to normal So if you've left less than that, can you imagine how hard it is on your body?

Like I'm not saying it's not a good idea. I'm just saying It's really tough for women, just to get back into balance before they even do anything else again. True, true. Don't always consider that. Nope. Yeah. But even, even outside of that, because you don't always expect, like, people to know all that stuff particularly, do you?

But it's just an insensitive question to ask. Don't, don't do it. Yeah. Just don't do it. Don't ask people that. Well, I'm sure our listeners are very good at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think it is a generational thing. Yeah, it's a good point. Because even, like, there's, uh, she's lovely. There's an older lady at nursery who loves Lily.

And she kept saying, she's so well behaved, you must have another one. And in my head, I was always like,  thank you for your opinion on this. And she was saying it in a nice way, like Lily's so good, you need to have another one. But I remember at the time being like If you'd said that to someone else who wasn't in our situation.

Or who didn't want one. Yeah, it could be quite hurtful. It's just Um, so yeah, I remember the time going, Oh yeah, thanks, and not really knowing how to react.  So yeah. Yeah, and it's really tough on people that would like a second one and can't for whatever reason. You know, I know my parents always tell me they wanted another one.

And couldn't have one. I mean, it's always a little weird, like they tell me stuff like this a bit like, Oh, we always hoped you were a girl. And I was like,  great. I mean, what do I do with that information? You, we really wanted you to have a sibling. Lovely. I mean, I didn't. I mean,  just, I know you're sharing your story, but it's a bit.

I don't think they should have bothered telling you they wanted you to be a girl. Tell your friends that. You don't need to tell me that as your kid.  It's a bit weird.  Anyway, um,  Tangent aside. My parents never say we wanted another child.  Understandably. Of course. Although if anyone's met my mother, she wants  innumerable grandchildren.

Infinite. And she still wants more.  Yeah, your, your mum's a terrible one for everyone she meets being like, are you, when are you having another baby? Yeah. Are you pregnant yet? When I was thinking of it. You should have one right now. I'm pretty sure it was straight after I'd given birth to my first one.

She was like, so, when are you planning on the second? I was like, I don't know mum, I've just given birth. That will definitely be the question you get after we've had the second, is when are you having your third? Yeah. I was just going to quickly mention, it is tricky for your family particularly, I think, because very few of you struggle getting pregnant.

Yeah, it's true. And so it's quite difficult for them to understand the other perspective, that for some people that is really hard. Yeah, yeah. Because that's not your experience. No, it's true. And it's not our experience. It's a bit tricky for us to  explain that as well. I would say we do have other complications.

So for instance, before we decided to try for this baby,  my periods were all over the place and I was having two a month. So I had to go to the doctor and be like, I'm having two periods a month. This can't be normal. Yeah. It's a bit strange, isn't it? So then I went for loads of tests. So actually, shout out to the NHS.

They were really good at immediately going that's not in the normal range. Yeah, let's get loads of tests done So basically they were like, yeah, we think you have something called hyper ovulation Which means you are more fertile Yeah, but it means also they don't know how long it's been going on for but all of this is just I was born with Less eggs.

Yeah, so I do have slightly less eggs and people should have my age and they think I will go into Menopause earlier. Yeah, but then talking to my mom. She's like, oh, yeah, everyone in our family goes into early menopause I was like, do you not think that's something you maybe should have told me? Before like so I know I don't have infinite time effectively.

Yeah, I have another child So it's at that point So basically you you've been we think probably all your life releasing leasing too many eggs too many eggs. You've been ovulating twice a month and so it means you'll hit menopause way earlier than you should do. Than I should do. Which put a cap on our timing of when we could feasibly have another child.

So I basically, afterwards the doctor was talking to me and they were like, you do have time if you want to wait but we would recommend that if you want less complications,  you know, basically go sooner the better. Yeah. And so at that point we decided, okay, we're  gonna try for the next one. Yeah. And then, because.

hyperovulation, we got pregnant pretty quick. Yeah. So. Well, um, we're getting into this rather deep topic. If it's something that you're interested in, do let us know. Cause maybe we'll, we could do a whole episode about this specific thing. And once I hit early menopause, I'm, I'm, I'll make an episode about that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Probably the biggest difference for us is of course, we had a kind of COVID baby first time  And it's quite interesting going through this experience again, now, not in COVID. And we'll touch on that when we do a future episode on, kind of, how we've experienced second pregnancy. Yeah. I mean, having said all this, COVID is still around.

Yeah. And in, like, in real time, as we're recording in recent months, so COVID. Yeah, yeah. Like everyone. So in fact, we'll actually be able to have people visit and go places. I mean I don't know if that's good. I don't know if I want to go to places with a newborn, but.  I think the main thing is just, it feels like such a long time ago.

Like I've got to get my mind back into gear. Baby mode. To prepare for it. Like I, are you, are you ready? Are you ready to be singing all the songs again? Oh yeah, I know all the songs.  Like, I feel like I've forgotten everything. I can't remember what you meant to do. I don't know if I can remember everything, but I think it comes back to you quickly, hopefully.

Hopefully.  And uh, of course, like, I'm already tired. Like, it's still tiring now, being a parent, whatever stage. I mean we're getting better sleep but it's a different pattern of tiredness with a toddler and then we're gonna have to go back to real sleeplessness with a baby again. It's when people, I remember saying like, if you got two hours together it was really good and I'm like, oh god, oh yeah. 

I remember the thrill of two hours sleeping, like, in a go was, like, extraordinary. Um, and I'm like, now I consider it bad if I haven't slept, like, six hours. Like, cause Lily's really good at, like, once she's asleep, she's asleep.  So, I'm hoping maybe the baby will be a good sleeper. Both laugh. Just being, like, stupidly optimistic.

Cause I know, firstly, I have to drink every so many hours, so that's not gonna happen. Both laugh.  You know, and I just don't think about how harsh the reality will be. Mmm, I'm, I'm trying to blank it out a lot. And it's like talking to people and even, um, when we put it out there for our, for our little podcast community to feed into this episode, um, quite a lot of the responses you get when you speak to people and, and people tell us it's like, well, it is hard.

Yeah. Like it, it, it's a big jump. It, it's, you know, really difficult. And I'm like, this is great. This is really reassuring.  This is lovely.  But once again, you prefer the daily reality. It's true. It's true. It's better not to sugarcoat it. Yeah. You know, I'm trying to not think about it. Okay. And then  we'll just survive.

Just survive. Well, that's all you can do. Just, you know, make it through each day. I'm currently just trying to look up freebies. Um, so there's like an app called Emma's Diary, not anything to do with me, it just happens to also have my name. And there's like two bags you can collect from Boots that like has, you know, nappies and little products in.

Yeah, yeah. So at some point, I'm going to go to Boots with my little scan.  Thing on my app and get some free stuff.  That's my way of preparing. I'm trying to find free things you can get  Yeah, last time because of COVID you do is nothing really we got some stuff from the hospital  Which this time I've got nothing.

I don't know. It's cuz I'm a second time parent.  I think they don't need it They do seem to treat you quite differently the second time.  I'm in some ways. It's quite nice, but we don't have as many appointments Um, to see the midwife or anything. Yeah. So.  I mean, the whole process of preparing is, is quite different in the way I've, I've not even really started yet.

We've just assumed that we'll be ready. Yeah. Which worryingly we discussed it yesterday and we were quite generous, um, when other people having a baby and I was like, Oh, you borrow this, give it back to us. Yeah. And now I can't remember who I've given things to. Yeah. So if you're listening to this, I led you through something and you go, Oh, yes. 

They love me this thing. I think, you know, we didn't often lend it to people with the assumption that they had to give it back. Oh no. We gave a lot of stuff away, but the thing is trying to remember what did we give away? And what do we still have? Yes. In our mind, we still have everything. It's like, it's great.

We don't really need to buy anything, but it's like, hmm. No. Actually, I think we gave stuff away, so maybe we do need to buy some stuff, and like, we need to check what we've got. Like, currently, right behind me, where I'm sat, recording, is our We have a little cupboard in the loft. Yeah, cupboard in the loft, where everything well, it is the loft, it's just, you know.

Yeah. And that's where all our stuff is. Baby stuff that we've kept and we've kept a lot of stuff,  most stuff, but I'm putting off going through it because it's an absolute tip in there. It is, yeah. Like dreading. And even though we've like. Cataloguing it all. Put a lot of the clothes in, um, this big box.

Yep. Just to go through them all is going to be, it's going to be work. And just getting stuff out to be ready, you know, working out. Yeah. What stuff will we need initially and what stuff's for later on and getting it in. And particularly because Lily was quite a big baby. We literally gave away all the, um, newborn items because she was never really in them.

Yeah. And I'm like, well, this time our baby might be smaller. We might actually need newborn items. Yeah. So it's a case of being like, what did we get rid of that we might actually need? And also because we've got limited space here, we gave a fair amount to your parents to kind of store. Yes. So some of it's in their garage.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I, I can't remember what's there, and what we need to ask for back. Where is everything?  It's just a mess. It is. It is handy though, because a lot of my sisters, um, so Kirsty, she now has a one year old, she has baby stuff she's getting rid of, like,  It's handy if you've got a big enough family and they're all, we're all pre producing at a similar time.

Yeah, and we discussed this a bit in our environment episode with Fran, didn't we? About the, the great nature of being able to share stuff, pass things on. Yeah. Particularly, With friends, but with your big family. Yeah. You know, you give things to other people and like with loads of babies in the family, stuff trickles down to other people.

Especially because, um, for anyone who's uh, doing the bingo, my sister in France, Becky, She's due her baby very soon, which means there'll be like a good chunk of months between them. Yeah. So she can pass on quite a few nice items to us. We're just relying on stuff  coming to us. Yeah. The tricky bit is it.

Yes, and the problem is she's like, I'll be here at Christmas, and I'm like,  Well, we still have to, we will have the baby quite a bit before Christmas, so  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll still have to survive without some of those things until that point. And the first time around, obviously It felt like we had a lot of time to prepare and work out what we had and to get everything organized.

Well, it's going very fast this time. It's going fast. But also with a toddler you're busy and you're tired and Well, I think I just don't have time. I don't have time to be doing this and let me put this once they're at nursery There is a lot of birthday parties  Which is lovely, like I especially went to one of her best friends this weekend, it was a lovely birthday party.

And then we went to the other, you know, we got another invite for another party. So we thought, like, that's another weekend.  We've got to be busy.  But, yeah. 

Hello, it's us again. Um, here to bring a little segment where we encourage you to tickle that like button, uh, give us all the engagement, get your phone out right now, hold it up and, uh, give the little buttons a tickle and recommend us to your friends, whether you think the podcast is good or bad, we don't care, just share it, you know, send it to someone and say, this is good. 

And, uh, that's, that's great. All engagement is good engagement. But that's true. Go up to someone on the street, uh, pull your car over. You know, don't, don't wait till later. Do it right now. Turn to your neighbor if you're sitting somewhere, you know, and say, this is a good podcast. That will be somebody who says, I choose not to have children.

Why are you showing me a parody podcast? I'm not a parent. Why are you showing me this?  We'd love this to become a little community that can support each other in a non judgmental way. Yeah. Uh, and it's, you know, it's a community that we rely on as well interacting with you guys out there. So thank you very much for listening and, and uh, sharing with us.

Um, but it'd be great for this to, to grow beyond, you know, just our kind of family and friends that kind of are engaged at the moment. Um, so do get involved with us, uh, over in our Facebook group chat. Um, I'm sure you can work out how to find that and do that, you know, just go look in the links and stuff.

There's, there's things there you can find it. Brand new for. This series, we've got a new little thing I'm experimenting with also having a space on Discord Yeah. For us to chat. So if you and I, I really like Discord. . There you go. So,  so if you wanna talk to me, mainly I'll probably be on the Discord,  , the Facebook thing is still there.

It'll still be used just as normal, but if, uh, that's not your thing. Yeah. And you prefer to be on Discord to chat with us. Yeah. Are you a Elliot or an Emma? Do you like the Facebook? Or do you like this card better? Again, links are down below or in the description or in the, in the places. You can find it.

We're also very grateful to be doing this project through the support of the Kharos Movement and Yorkshire North and East Methodist District, who I work for. The Kharos Movement allows us to kind of express our faith. through passions and interests, which is kind of why we're doing this podcast all about parenting. 

And, uh, yeah, we're not, we're not here to get you to, to join it particularly. It's not a church as such. Um, it's a bit of a weird thing to explain, but if you want a place to kind of explore spirituality online with a bunch of liberal oddbods like us, then you might find something, uh, and one of the groups or partnerships that Kairos have, uh, maybe it's useful.

Right, time to get back to the other us, uh, chatting, just the ones, the ones you heard just now. Yeah, go back. But remember, engage, you have to engage, if you don't engage, you won't get a prize. 

So moving from, um, kind of preparation into thinking about what our hopes and expectations are with parenting. Once we have a second one, um, there's all sorts of dilemmas and challenges to navigate I think um, and lots of them fed into us by Uh a lot of our listeners which has been fantastic some things I haven't considered.

So if we go from Uh, very initially, kind of when we first have the baby, uh, a lot of, a lot of tips were sent to us about how to kind of navigate that particularly once you've got one child already and introducing your new baby to your, the older sibling. Yeah, and I looked up this a lot too. So one of the first things I found, like, looking up online, they were saying when the Your child, so Lily in this instance, comes to meet the baby.

Don't have the baby on your knee, because then it's almost like they've taken that other child's place. So have the baby beside you in whatever. We'll probably have a little hospital crib.  Yeah. But whatever thing is near you, just so then it doesn't feel like the baby's already taken that place. Yeah. And so it's a bit, you know, less alarming.

It's all, it's all methods, isn't it, for  Looking after the older siblings kind of mental health and not making them feel like they've been completely replaced. Yeah. Um, I think it's the general idea, isn't it? It's about jealousy and, you know. It'll be very normal for Lily to get jealous. Yeah, very normal.

I'm not going to say it's a bad thing, but it's to try and go Minimize that? Yeah, minimize it and say you're still important. Yeah. Um, yeah, that hasn't grown less. Lily's had three years of undivided attention. She's been very spoiled as an only child and that's all going to change. It's going to turn her world on her head.

So yeah, it's just helping us all through that process. Yeah. So that was one of the first things I looked up. And the other thing was getting a gift from the baby, so they're excited and it shows that the baby already loves them. We've seen that quite a while, haven't we? We saw that as a good recommendation.

Um, I think, did your sister do that? Yeah, Becky did that with her first one. Yeah, and I remember we, we clocked it at the time, was like, that's, that's a good idea. We'll remember that for our one.  Um, yeah, I think we're thinking, um, we're gonna be a bit cheaty, and as a present we'll probably get Lily, uh, like a tablet, so she can watch stuff and play games and things.

Which I know, not the best thing. I know, it's,  it's not ideal. We know we're gonna need more time, so she really needs to be able to do stuff by herself. I feel like, in some ways, We've done quite well not having a kind of tablet or technology for her so far. That's true, yeah. I mean, she does have quite a lot of screen time with TV but Yeah.

I feel like a tablet we can at least have educational games and things on. That's what I was thinking, like letters and numbers and as long as we keep an eye what's on it then it's fine. Yeah, be very highly controlled. Yeah. Um, and I know it's not as good as having like, you know, a nice Montessori toy or Yeah.

Something. Homemade or recycled or something. I don't know for, for her, but  just, I feel like it will make our lives easier. Yeah. And that's what we want. We want something we don't have to do too much with.  Yeah, yeah. This is when we'll record a podcast later. about the realities and it will have backfired and like every few seconds you'd have been like, help me do this thing on the tablet and we're like, why did we get her a tablet?

Why did we get a tablet? It's not worked. But that's our, our plan as the gift we're gonna get to Lily from the baby. I found it really interesting. Um, people's suggestions about how important it was for them that the older sibling was the first person to, uh, meet the newborn baby, and to find out the baby's name.

Um, that's not something I'd considered at all, really.  Was natural that they'd be the first people to meet the baby other than obviously Elliot. Well, yeah, I get I get what you mean like physically meet. Yeah, I suppose in this day and age the tricky thing is, you know, with technology Yeah, Lily will likely be staying with family.

Yeah elsewhere just for the couple of days. Yeah Shout out to Kirsty Yeah, I'm called to look after Lily. Thank you. Thank you.  Um, but of course that means she won't be physically present as soon as the baby's born yet family will be pestering us, you know, for photos over the phone for like, to know that the baby's born, to find out the name and see a photo. 

And so that's an interesting dilemma that I'd not really thought about, which was brought up. Um, so yeah. What, what do you think?  I, I kind of agree with people. Um, I'm almost tempted to say, I might send, and this is when they'll cause a ruckus in the family, but I'm tempted to send a photo to Kirsty because she will be with Lily, for me to show her the baby.

Ooh. Um, we can discuss it, but I thought maybe, and then I won't tell the name till Yeah. Lily comes and sees us, um, but that's not that different from last time because we just didn't tell anyone the name till the baby was born. Yes, we didn't. Yeah. So it'll only be hopefully a few days after that till Lily comes and sees us.

So. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I just think those few days, that's quite a long time to hold our families off. Yeah. From not giving them a name or a photo or whatever. It's true.  That's interesting. I'm not considered, Send I yeah, I just thought it might help Lily get to grips that it's out and real I don't I don't know.

I I think are you want to wait for just for the surprise? I just think meeting the baby in person having you know engaging with the baby for the first time over a photo That doesn't feel like a great idea to me video call or do you think just wait? I think it depends a lot on  The circumstances about how quickly we're able and it's feasible for Lily to come back and join us after the birth.

That's true, because we know with a C, so if people don't know, plan C section this time. Um, so it means at least be in a couple of days, because they like you to stay in a couple of days after a C section regardless. But almost as soon as you've given birth, It becomes fairly feasible for me to go and collect Lily.

It does, yeah. And for her to come and stay at home again. Yes, yeah. And for us to come in and visit you. So within 24 hours of you giving birth, it becomes Hopefully, everything's gone well. Yeah, yeah, it becomes feasible that I could be there with Lily to introduce her to the Yeah, yeah. I think in my head that the other way of approaching it was, I was thinking we might tell Lily the name of the baby. 

a few days or so before we give birth, which means she will know the name and therefore it means we could tell the rest of the family the name once, as soon as the baby's born. Yeah, I think that would work. Because she will have known it beforehand. Because once again, we'll have a date to be, um, you know, taken in, so it's not like it's up in the air as much.

We're fairly settled on a name. Now, I mean, there's still a little bit of uncertainty. A little bit of wiggle room, but we're pretty happy. We're both quite easygoing, is the thing. Yeah. Um, and near the, near, I say near the end, near the end of our thinking, there was three names that we, Kind of liked all three of them. 

We think we've stopped on one. Yeah, um, middle names are still middle names are still Going, but we haven't told Lily yet and won't until really close to the time because because she's a real blabbermouth. She's a chatterbox. Yeah. And she will undoubtedly tell people and it's just something that we don't, you know, Feel is other people's business.

Yeah. And I also just, uh, this is a hint for anyone. People can't have an opinion if the baby's already named when it's born. Yeah, exactly. I would think I don't tell people till we've basically had the baby. And then I'm like, well, that's the baby's name now. So if you don't like it, it's tough. Because it's, it's born.

That's what it's been named. Can you tell we both come from families where we're used to  people pushing back against things and being like, Hmm, are you sure about that? So I'd see that happen to a lot of my sisters. And I was like, I'm just, we're just not going to tell anyone till the baby's basically here.

And then I don't want your opinion. That's what I've known my child.  Another thing I read online, which I've just remembered. Often you'll be saying, Oh, like, so I'll be saying to Lee, Oh, I need five minutes just to do this with the baby. So they said, even obviously though the baby can't understand to try and be fair and seem equal, you should say, I'm sorry right now, baby, I need five minutes to do this with Lily.

So just so it gets into Lily's head that you're also important. I'm also going to tell the other child that I need to concentrate on you right now. And that's fine. And so I thought that was a really good tip to try and be like, make it seem a bit fairer. Yeah.  I suppose the same kind of applies with discipline and stuff.

Like. I know people have different approaches to this, but I think we've said before we, we do do like timeouts and stuff. We do. I know it's unpopular. You can slay us. Woah!  I don't know. Also, I think Lily will just start saying cheeky baby to it. Mm. Mm. Like, she does now when I say it's kicking me. She's like, it's such a cheeky baby. 

Yeah. Yeah. She loves calling people cheeky. Yeah, we need really like a child psychologist on or something  Tell us what if we're doing things, right? Yeah I think that's the challenge of parenting isn't it like you can get too worried sometimes or too caught up in like this the right Thing like how you know, it is it detrimental like yeah, you know getting really worried about it And  I think sometimes you've just got a you know Yeah, go with it.

Model it out. I think this is why I'm hopeful, you know, in terms of expectations generally for a second child We're both quite relaxed. We don't get too stressed particularly. I mean, I say that once the sleeplessness kicks in I get very grumpy. I tend to do very well, not to pick myself up, but I do think a lot of that is the hormones that they say, like,  Um, a lot of like women's hormones respond to the baby crying in just such a different way.

So I have a lot of stuff almost making me stay calm because that's kind of the natural thing my body's doing. Yeah. So, I remember last time Elliot would be like, how are you not frustrated? I'd be like, I don't know. I'm just not. Yeah.  But we're realistic, you know, I think we'll make a lot of plans and, you know, we might say a lot of stuff here in this conversation now that might seem over ambitious, but we don't mind throwing a lot of that out the window if stuff changes, if it becomes overwhelming, you know, it's just our hopes.

I think also our main thing is, like, a lot of people we know just go out with the baby straight away and that's not us.  I, I think I struggle, especially with a c section, to get out that quickly. Um, so I think I'm very We take it slow. We take it slow, and if there's an event coming up and I'm like, I just don't think it's feasible, then we just don't go.

Um, and I know, I'm sorry if that upsets people, but I'm often like, is it worth our sanity? pushing ourselves when we're not ready to go out somewhere. If it's not, we're not doing it. Yeah. Um, I'm fully expecting with a second arriving that we'll become little hermits again. Yeah. And like for a long time stuff, you know, other than taking Lily out places, I think, yeah, it'd just be off the table, but maybe, I don't know, maybe it will be different.

Lots of parents. We've been really impressed seeing others recently who have, you know, newborns, second child children, and they've been out and about and doing stuff. We bumped into them at church and we're like, wow, like the baby's only a few weeks. What are you doing here? How have you managed this? You know?

I think what we've found is for them just having something to entertain the older child. Which I think we may find is the real thing. So, you know, we'll just have to go with the flow and see what happens. I'm really resistant to making firm plans. Yeah. And I think, you know, I'm trying to get back into that mindset of, you know, short term thinking.

Yeah. Over long term thinking. Yeah. At the same time, you've always got to be a little bit thinking ahead. Yeah. You know, um, again, one of our listeners was chatting with us, um, on Instagram about this, the kind of thing of thinking about not getting into bad habits, it can be very easy to opt for the, the easy thing, the short term, and actually then backfires long term, um, you know, and we've had multiple examples of that with Lily as well, you know. 

And it's so hard because I feel like we succeed so much, like Lily's very good at sharing and she's very patient and Well, that was the example that came up actually around sharing about, you know, it's quite easy, uh, initially to be like, well, the baby doesn't understand Well, that's true, yeah, baby doesn't care So the older sibling can have preferential treatment over toys and, and sharing and not worrying about, you know, What, what thing the baby's playing with, but actually in the long term, it can then be quite difficult to get back into that, you know, I know that, you know, they're playing with that now, you can't just take it, you've got to share.

But you can see how you get there, because I know, I know, when, uh, Lily used to play with baby Sophie and Kirstie would be like, no, it's fine, and I'd be like, no, it isn't, because I don't want, but mine wasn't even a principle, because at that point, I was just like, I, I want her to be good at sharing.

Because she has definitely different rules for family than people outside the family. In that she's very very good at sharing with everybody else, but when her cousins come round, she's a bit more resistant. So yeah, that'll be interesting if that  also applies to the baby. Um, but I'm hoping because they're at different stages for quite a while, they just won't I know the little one will always be interested in whatever Lily has, but I'm hoping Lily will be like, well, that's a baby's toy.

Why would I want that right now? Yeah, but I think the big tricky thing is that We are attempting to not, you know, go and buy a load of new toys for the baby.  We've kept most stuff and, you know, we have a load of toys already. We have a load of toys. And so in my mind, the baby can have them, but Lily will see them as her toys.

Yes, it's true.  Yeah, sure, maybe it's a baby toy, but I think Lily would be like, She's very good at remembering. She's got an excellent memory. Like, I think she'll remember that a lot of them were her toys. Yeah. And she'll go, No. But we'll see. We've tried to lay the groundwork. Yeah. Very heavily. And I think it's helped with your family.

It has, yeah. Interacting with other people of different ages. She's had to learn how to share. And, you know, like you say, give things away. Um, but yeah, we'll, we'll see whether it's paid off. We'll see if it's made any difference.  We might go to it and she's like, but it's my sister, so I don't share with her. 

I think this is the big question, really. This is the big, and this is the thing that worries me, because I know a lot of people say it isn't true. Yeah, that it isn't the same. Which is, you go into this, Assuming that the second baby's gonna be a carbon copy of the first baby and we'll react and do the same things and that the same way we parented Lilly, we'll work again.

And I know people say It never happens. It never works like that.  And that worries me. Because  as much as there were challenges, as much as we share things where, you know, things went wrong, Lily has been okay. We've managed, and like, we've done well, and Particularly when you hear other people's stories, I think we sometimes feel quite blessed that it's not been as hard.

And I think that's why we're maybe feel up to having another child at this point and not been like, I know some people have such a difficult experience, they go, that's it. We just, we can't do this again.  Um, and so there's so many things where I'm like, wow. But what if the next one isn't like Lily? You know, we can, we've not had to, for example, hide lots of small objects, put things out of reach.

We've not had to lock cupboards. You know, we trust her to do so many things because she's so sensible.  I, the next one might not be like that. Which is even like, um, so we met with my friend Vicky yesterday and her little girl loves just like running straight ahead. Lily's very clingy, so she will just hold your hand.

And I was kind of like, this isn't a taught thing. She's just a bit more of a cautious child, which can have its setbacks, but it's great for a child who doesn't really do anything dangerous.  She's not gonna jump off a high thing, she's not gonna run off, she'll generally walk and hold your hand, like, she's much more cautious, even stairs, still very cautious about stairs.

If anything, I'm on a thing at the moment to try and encourage her to be more adventurous, to, you know, do stuff independently.  Uh, and so that's not a challen like, running off isn't a challenge that we've had to come across. And so it would be a completely new experience for us if the next one is just the opposite of that.

And, and is a daredevil. So if they just jump off everything, I'll be like, Whoa, this, the last one didn't even want to walk. Like. I mean, uh, fortunately in some ways. Um, you know, we're having another girl. So I feel like  I'm hoping it makes them more similar. Yeah. And we feel like we kind of know a bit more about what we're doing.

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe if, if you had different gendered second child, like if we were having a boy, I would feel.  A bit more like, hmm, I'm not sure if I know what to do with a boy. Yeah, yeah. And I know that's probably people who have multiple ones of different genders. They might go, oh it doesn't matter, they're all different anyway.

But right now it gives us a full sense of confidence  that we may know more about what we're doing than we would if it was a boy. Yeah, yeah. Um. So a few quick things, things that maybe we want to do again, that we thought were quite good last time. So this ties very heavily into the kind of like short term fix versus long term habits,  which, you know, dummies.

A one that I'd say we've actually struggled with because we like trying to get them off, but I think we would say we're going to do it again.  When people are going to go, that's crazy. But it honestly, it helps soothe her so much at that age. And I think this time I will try and take it off the baby earlier.

We'll try.  But it's interesting for us. It's been a big challenge in the last year to wean her off it, but actually the benefit. We feel it gave us in the first year  outweighs  the challenge, outweighs the next two years of struggle.  It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. No, we both were like, well, we'll have to get dummies again.

Like that was just a given for us. So that's what we're doing. Yeah. And I think also because Lily's now off the dummy, it makes us feel less apprehensive that it will be a forever lifetime problem for them. Um, and in very similarly, our approach to feeding, um, is the same, like, I don't know whether it's just because it's what we know, what we did last time.

It was a huge challenge doing mixed feeding. It was. But I think going into it, even if you are able to do breastfeeding. Yeah, I don't want to be the sole feeder. And it's a selfish thing from my point of view, I'm going to be honest. It's entirely, don't say Gelli is like, oh, I want to do it. the baby. It's me going, I don't want to do every night by myself.

I feel like I feel very isolated. It's just more work for the slave. Yeah, it's more work for the slave as we call him in this house.  I'm the resident slave. So I'd like it to be a bit fairer. So I'm like, even if I succeed very well, I don't want to do every feed. Yeah. Um, and I know that can have its complications. 

I just, I don't want to be by myself. Again, if you're, if you're a new listener here, then, um, you know, we're fairly equal in parenting. We are, yeah. We try to aim for like 50 50, or at the very least,  I, I do a significant portion of parenting that it doesn't fall on you, and a lot of the typical stuff doesn't fall on you.

So yeah, again, we'll probably go into the second one with that. Aim. Yeah, yeah. We'll see what happens. Um, a final one to mention is then the opposite of something that I think I'm gonna do different this time.  Last time it was our first baby, it was new and exciting. We have thousands, literally thousands of photos and videos.

Oh yeah. Of Lily. So many.  And so, I don't know, like This is harder, because you know the second child will look and go, Why is there thousands of pictures of the firstborn? And there's only like 50 of me! Part of my mind goes to, well, me. Maybe if I just go through and delete a load of them,  then in the future it will seem more equal.

Well, I think that's the better way to go. But actually, you know, my plan is to do things differently. So I know feasibly we cannot treat the next one equally in terms of exactly how we treat it. Well, we won't have the time. No, it's just not possible. Because you've got another child. And so rather than saying, they get a lesser experience.

There won't be as many photos or videos. My thing is just to approach the whole thing differently. So they have a different thing to have. So my plan is to do more vlogging. Oh, okay. So then see what it was like. I don't think I will have time in every moment to take Like, photos or, you know, I, I mean, specifically, we'll probably still be snappin a load of photos on our phone and things, but like, last time, it We had, like, week one!

Yeah, yeah, we did week It's week whatever six now! Yeah, yeah, we did that, but also, you know, I, uh, kind of a budding hobby photographer, so, like, I did little photo shoots. Oh, he did, yeah. And, like, we actually have some proper photos of the baby and us.  Like a little newborn shoot he did. Cause you know we're cheap, we didn't pay someone.

Elliot just set up the stuff and did it. But that was nice. But yeah, we're not gonna have time for that really. So by doing a kind of vlog thing throughout the year, it'll be a different medium. And just kind of, you know, slightly easier. I don't feel pressured to capture every moment. Yeah. But just, you know, I can tell our story and it's a different thing that we can look back on and because we'll have two it benefits the whole family because I can show Lily's journey as well as the baby's journey.

Yeah, I think that's fair. That's my aim. Again, it can't, when I say it out loud, It sounds like a lot of work. does sound much simpler than taking photos and videos. But I know what you mean. It's like a different way of doing it. And you wouldn't have to vlog consistently. Yeah. Do you mean? 

New segment thing for you, for Emma.  I've got a new, new little thing that I'm introducing. Oh, do I know about this or not? So, uh, favorite co host, um, what, how, how would you rate this topic? I'm introducing a rating system at the end of every conversation. We're going to rate, not, not how well our conversation, I'm not asking you to say I was going to say that's quite critical.

You know, was our conversation any good? Because obviously it was excellent.  But, um, I'm saying like the topic as a whole, how would you, how would you rate this topic? Uh, and, uh, my Fun scale for today of how would you rate our preparation and expectations of baby two from the on a scale of sleepless dread to family chaos.

Where where would you pitch it? Is it are you are you in pregnancy glow mode or baby brain excitement?  I'd say this is, I'm never in glow mode, never glowed. I'm currently just quite excited. So I don't know what category that is of the weird things you've given me. 

Cautiously excited.  Very good. There you go. I'm feeling more optimistic having had this conversation. It's made me a bit more excited. I'd say beforehand I was very much down at the sleepless dread end of the spectrum. I think we'll end up in sleepless dread, don't get me wrong. There you go, there's our rating.

Let us know what your rating of this topic would be on my wonderful scale. It's a weird system.  Well, expect nothing less from me. That's true. It's gonna be a different scale every week. I'll enjoy that. So we're coming to the end, um, do we have any stories from our parenting community? We had, as we've already mentioned, quite a few people send us tips about, you know, preparing, like, your older sibling in terms of jealousy and, um, that sort of stuff for the arrival of the second one. 

And see, a lot of people said not to send pictures till like, the older one meets the baby. I feel like I'm gonna start going to Elliot's side now and be like, maybe we shouldn't send any pictures till the baby meets Lily. We had a suggestion about, you know, always referring to the baby as our baby or your brother and sister.

That's a good idea. You know, to help it feel like, you know, There's a belonging, so lots of things they did for their second child, like we've already mentioned, that were really good ideas, but then, um, going from two to three, um, they were then just way too exhausted and didn't do any of them, at all, and it all turned out fine anyway, so, maybe, you know, maybe all the things, uh, not as essential as we, we might worry about, but, you know, I don't know.

Yeah, and an increase in like, telly time and, and screen time, um, is a big thing. I think that will be a reality for us, I think. The issue for us is that we've, that's already happened, like, through pregnancy, it's already been tough. Yeah, through pregnancy we've already got Screen time has gone up massively.

I will say, she's got massively into um, board games though, which although is really nice at the minute, it doesn't And I'm like, when I'm holding the baby, I don't think I'll be able to sit here. And play board games. So it's quite a nice hobby. She's got into at the minute, but it's not one that's really baby friendly Yeah, the other one that um, someone said was about how they're the older sibling um was really into like playing baby when the baby arrived and pretending to to be a baby as well and wanting you to Like, you know and lily's already into that.

Yeah, so I 100 percent see that happening. Yeah, definitely So yeah, i'm sure that's quite a common thing as well and like not to worry about that and just lean into it Oh, yeah Well, thank you for joining us on the Squashy Sofas today. You go back to pushing your push chair. With your pram. Push, you know, do your pramming.

Whatever you're up to. Might be the middle of the night. Or, you know. Well it doesn't mean you might not be pramming. Yep.  As usual. That's it. We're trailing. We don't have a good ending.  Hope you sleep well. Or wake up as you're not meant to be sleeping. Cut.